Zak
12-27-2009, 06:53 AM
Just playing through the game and I've been thinking... Al Bheds in this game are considered a "race", and sure they look like regular people, with the exception of the eyes.
But in this game, Ronso and Guado are also referred to as "races", and they can technically walk and talk like people as well. Al Bhed can mate with people obviously (Yuna), but then again so can Guado (Seymour). Also, when Seymour's origin is discussed, it's said that Jyscal was with a "human woman" implying that Guados aren't human.

So what would you think? If in this game, being another "race" means being not human, then that would mean Al Bheds are seperate as well?

CC
12-27-2009, 07:25 AM
As far as I can tell, the only thing that really differentiates Al Bhed from humans is their eyes; if you look closely at Rikku, clearly her eyes are a distinct aqua color with a spiral running the length of the iris. But other than that, I can see no possible reason why the Al Bhed should be considered something other than human, even though they seem to be. Maybe in X's world, all humans speak english, while anything that deviates is considered another race? But then again Guado speak english, so I'm not entirely sure :O That's one thing that always stumped me about that game..

Seru_Kai
12-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Chinese people are Asian(race), but they're also Human(species). That should be the answer you're answer ;)

Ronsos are clearly not Human, but they have Human traits. As for the Guado, I don't know if the game details any of their history, but I would classify them as Human, since there's no evidence of a creation or evolution from a non-human species. (besides Seymours' father mating with a 'human woman' which may just be the Guado's saying Jyscal mated with a race other than Guado)

Zak
12-27-2009, 11:28 AM
Chinese people are Asian(race), but they're also Human(species). That should be the answer you're answer ;)

No it shouldn't, because this game is a different universe therefore it can take the meaning of the word "race" and do whatever it wants with it.

I just figured it would stay consistent. Also Seru, I would see that quote as an implication that Guado's are non-human.

Seru_Kai
12-27-2009, 05:47 PM
Guados could very well be non-human. But the game sadly doesn't give any descriptions or heritage (that I remember). I would say that if you weren't going to classify them as humans, at least classify them as sub-humans or part human. They can mate (and actually reproduce) with humans, meaning that they are compatible in the required areas to continue a species.

Also, it is a fantasy based game, and although there are some things that are purely imaginative, I doubt SE would actually altar the basic definition of race/species. There are real aspects in these games, even if something mundane like racial classifications.

IMO, Guado's are at least part human.

Zak
12-27-2009, 05:56 PM
Okay, I just got to Guadosalam during my playthrough, and here are a few random Guado NPC quotes:

"Humans! Humans! A summoner and her guardians!"

"You humans must think we Guado look odd. That's okay, we get that a lot. But if you ask me, I think you humans look absolutely disgusting."

"Once, a human child simply looked at me and then burst into tears. That hurt".

"I suppose you have trouble telling us apart... actually, we Guado have trouble telling one human from another, too".

Okay Seru... tell me again whether Guados are human?

Seru_Kai
12-27-2009, 10:22 PM
"I suppose you have trouble telling us apart... actually, we Guado have trouble telling one human from another, too".

Okay Seru... tell me again whether Guados are human?

You ask for opinions, and then shoot down what I say? Nice technique.

As for the actual quote I quoted, have you ever heard a saying "White people think black people look alike?" (and vice versa, changing races to make the joke fit).

So a species that you are apparently determined (even though this is a thread about Al Bhed) to say isn't human can speak the language of humans (and Ronsos), can mate with humans, and even carry other human traits like eating food, wearing clothes, and playing blitzball etc etc. You're saying they aren't even 1% human? (that's what part human means in my previous post)

If you didn't understand the reasonings I just listed, I suggest reading the previous section of this post again.

Like I said before, even though it is a fantasy based game, not everything in the game is fake. Also, I'm only guessing, but I doubt SE really cared about a question like this, since they didn't provide any history of the Guados or Al Bhed (besides the Yevon backstory).

Edit: One last thing, when the Guados refer to humans as humans, it may very well be that human is a race within the people of Spira. It's stretching it a big imo, but since you think SE made up every single detail about this game, they could've used 'human' as a race just as well as Guado and Al Bhed.

CC
12-28-2009, 06:55 AM
We're just trying to help you answer your question Zak; no need to be rude.

supdup
12-28-2009, 12:06 PM
I think Guado are another race. Human being the race. Their not called 'asian' or 'caucasian' they're called 'human'. Same as Al Bhed and Guado. Calling Ronso another race however is most probably just bad scripting.

Zak
01-02-2010, 03:08 AM
Eh? I just looked over my post... anyone who thinks I was being "rude" serious needs to lighten up.

Anyway, playing through the game, I'm seeing even more quotes now that imply that Guados and humans are two different things.

And Seru, in my defense, when I first posted this, I hadn't encountered the quotes. Also what I was "shooting down" was about whether or not Guados are human, I was actually initially asking about Al Bheds. Try harder next time.

Seru_Kai
01-02-2010, 09:32 PM
The Al Bhed are a race of a species.

Al Bhed=Race
Human=Species

I really hope this is understandable to you, and that you realize you are trying to dig deep into something that isn't there. There was no big puzzle or question or even story that depicted the Al Bhed weren't human. It was just a given that they were (hence Yuna's father and mother were different races, and Yuna was half Al Bhed and half Human). Also note in my previous post that 'Human' could also be a race. No where at all in the game does it reference Yuna as being half Human and half ???? (as in two different species).

I realize you'd try and say 'well what race is Yuna?' because the game never actually says so (I don't think). It's just a generalized observation that the player has to make. SE couldn't just come out and say that Tidus and the whole group were American or Japenese or anything like that. They obviously didn't focus too much on their race because it would require extra story that wasn't needed.

Again, I don't know why you're having trouble letting this go, as it's turning into a rediculous and pointless argument.



Try harder next time.

Fuck you. You sit there and ask for opinions, and then you refuse to accept the answers you get as viable options. You should really just make a thread where you debate youself because that's clearly all you care about.

CC
01-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Eh? I just looked over my post... anyone who thinks I was being "rude" serious needs to lighten up.

Honestly, I think you need to lighten up. Yes, you were being rude. I have nothing against you or anyone else here, but just saying your reaction to our answers was borderline trolling, if not blatantly trolling. You didn't need to turn this into an argument, as there's no evidence in the game to support any such theory and any discussion about it would result only in speculation and opinions anyway.

Zak
01-03-2010, 01:05 AM
Fantastic, so you're all ganging up on me... how cute. But this is so ridiculous that you're trying to say I'm in the wrong here, that I'm not gonna even comment. Agent is the mod here and it's his judgment whether or not I'm "trolling" and I could be wrong, but seeing as he's intelligent, I wouldn't doubt that if he were to look at this thread right now, he'd think it's absurd that you guys think I'm trolling.

Seru_Kai
01-03-2010, 01:58 AM
I don't think you're trolling.

I think you're slightly retarded.
:D
(There's a difference).

Edit: As for the topic, are you going to talk about it anymore, or can this thread just fade away like almost every other thread?

Edit: created a :D so people wouldn't take this post as a reason to kill themselves.

Zak
01-03-2010, 03:05 AM
I don't think you're trolling.

I think you're slightly retarded.

(There's a difference).

Edit: As for the topic, are you going to talk about it anymore, or can this thread just fade away like almost every other thread?


Well, I'll go easy on you because of your registration date, but I'm certain that most people who would be reading this thread would agree that you calling me retarded is downright hilarious. Especially people who have been here for a while and know that I'm actually one of the more intelligent and respected posters around these parts, would think you're making a joke of yourself in this thread.

I wouldn't mind letting this thread fade away since you kind of ruined it by deciding to take a small thing personally that happened to make you go on a tirade.

But since you've whipped it out, here we go. You claim I "ask for opinions and then shoot them down". First of all, it appears you seem to have some twisted mentality that because I'm "asking for opinions" I'm not allowed to comment on them. And when I do as much as merely comment, you start whining like a little child and calling me infantile names and claiming I don't listen. You fail to realize that I simply gave me own feedback which wasn't necessarily "shooting you down".

Let me lay it out for you in simple retard-proof terms: This is a thread, it's open to replies, and every post in it is open to replies as well, and this may come as surprising or disappointing news to you, but every post is still open even to me. Understood? Good. I'm sorry if you were under the impression that because I was the OP, I wasn't allowed to respond to posts in my own thread.

Honestly, how old are you?

Seru_Kai
01-03-2010, 03:38 AM
/sigh

The part about 'slightly retarded' was a joke, or at least meant as one. But I keep forgetting to use my little :D marks, as apparently everything that's said without :D's is considered serious.

And nothing I've posted should be taken as a 'tirade', I've seen far worse posted here. This forum (imo) seems to lack seriousness one day, and then become this rediculously high-standard forum the next. A joke is funny when this person says it, but when someone else says it, the thread is closed or the poster is reprimanded (this is referring to your friend Agent, who I don't have a problem with,you just mentioned him a couple posts ago and I laughed at the hypocrisy).

You are free and enabled to form your own opinions about, well, everything. What I meant, and maybe I didn't word it so clearly, is that you give off the sense of not caring about anything anyone says unless it's in agreement with what you think. I don't mind if you disagree with what I say, but it sounds (more like reads) as if you only care about people posting their opinion if it's approved by you.

I personally don't care about flaunting intelligence on a Final Fantasy forum. Congratulations. You're apparently thought of as smart and witty and an overall stand-up guy.....what does that get you in life? This forum, to me, is about a series of games, not a series of competetive ego-driven maniacs trying to prove to each other how smart they are.

If this was a discussion in one of the non-gaming related forums, then perhaps I would've taken you/the conversation more seriously. But it's wasn't, and still isn't.

I'm 22.

Owen Sanchez
01-03-2010, 05:35 AM
Wow, I thought I was bad.

Darth Revan
01-03-2010, 05:43 AM
Wow, I thought I was bad.

You think this is bad, you haven't seen how this forum shines. Over the last few years, been some really... interesting... debates etc.

Back to topic though, I do consider the Ah Bhed as humans, though unlike the ''Yevonites' the Al Bhed follow Machina instead. The Guado, Ronso etc... may have a common background with the 'human' Yevonites in the past, but w/e.

CC
01-03-2010, 07:14 AM
As I stated before, I have nothing against anyone here, and I was merely commenting on what I perceived to be trolling. I really shouldn't have jumped in as it wasn't my business, but I felt it to be slightly unkempt the way Zak reacted, as Seru_Kai said. However, I did not intend to start/join any sort of argument, so this will be my last post in this thread.

Smarty
01-03-2010, 12:46 PM
You think this is bad, you haven't seen how this forum shines. Over the last few years, been some really... interesting... debates etc.

I am definitely gonna stick around in this forum.

And as a response to the topic:

I don't see a reason why the Al Bhed wouldn't be considered human. Personally I don't consider Guados and Ronsos humans of any kind. But I think the Al Bhed are humans who abandoned Yevon so they can do their research on machina and whatever. Other than the colour of their eyes they have no distinct characteristics that would make me think they aren't human.

Guados kinda look like the pirates on Davy Jones' crew from Pirates of the Carribean 2. :)

EColeman24
01-04-2010, 07:06 AM
hmmm good question. As much as I love this game I have never thought about this aspect of the storyline. Initially I would say they simply belong to and/or practice another culture but now that you mention it they are referred to as a race so I am not sure.

If you find out anything concrete on this I would love to know.

EColeman24
01-04-2010, 07:08 AM
I am definitely gonna stick around in this forum.

And as a response to the topic:

I don't see a reason why the Al Bhed wouldn't be considered human. Personally I don't consider Guados and Ronsos humans of any kind. But I think the Al Bhed are humans who abandoned Yevon so they can do their research on machina and whatever. Other than the colour of their eyes they have no distinct characteristics that would make me think they aren't human.

Guados kinda look like the pirates on Davy Jones' crew from Pirates of the Carribean 2. :)

You have a good point but who is to say another race has to look all that different from us? Think of how some of the races looked on Star Trek, the Betazoids (s/p) looked just like humans, but were not.

Darth Revan
01-04-2010, 07:26 AM
EColeman24 please do not double post.

Humans as a race are a diverse people. Al Bhed, only differ from the other 'humans', due to the eyes and a devotion (of sorts) to Machina. Apart from that, no real difference in my opinion. Besides, this is a Final Fantasy game, so different races usually do pop up.

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