Nostalgia gamer
09-27-2011, 01:45 PM
Final Fantasy VIII Review (Part 2) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiToL55zwRI)
This is one reason.

2:The stupid card game from hell that forces you to reset over and over till that bitch finally goes to dollet rather than galbadia.
3:The story has a lot of filler moments that is boring.
4:Stupid characters like irvine and selphie who are the grandparents of stupid characters like vanille.

There are some things like about the game:i sometimes found collecting cards fun,but the stupid card queen quest sucks.
I like the idea of summons teaching the party members abilities,i just hate how tedious it is to learn everything.

topopoz
09-27-2011, 05:17 PM
SPOONY IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I get your point...

Although, spoony took that aspect to the extreme just to make fun of the Farming Mechanic of the game...

It can get fun to you if you know how to handle that though. But you need to know which are the spells that are good to junction. Which will require you to do some trial and error. Anyway the game is always easy. So no prob if you keep hating the game.

In terms of Characters and Storyline. FAIL!. Don't waste your time with it.[COLOR="Silver"]

Nostalgia gamer
09-27-2011, 06:11 PM
Well.. I think he did have a point in some things.

I mostly didn't mind as much the card game.Its just that i hated the card queen quest.
The card queen,is probably one of the most frustratingly annoying games i have ever encountered.The sheer annoyance of having to constantly reset to get her to go to dollet,pisses me off to no end.
I found much of the dialogue to be filler,and i don't like cid in this game.
I did like squall,which is strange since everyone seems to hate squall.I am not doing this to be different,i seriously feel that way about the game.I can't stand cloud,and his mindless fanboy zombie horde made him into probably the most hated character of all time.Squall on the other hand:I find him more interesting than cloud.Its almost like squall has a personality disorder,or some sort of antisocial disorder.

He doesn't trust anyone since his sister abandoned him,and he becomes a nervous wreck when dealing with stressfull situations.
I like the inner monologue as well.I like hearing his thoughts about thing and how nervous he becomes strolling back and fourth worried about the slightest thing.

The problem with ff8 is:There are maybe only 2 characters i like,maybe 3:

Squall
Quistis and laguna.
Quistis,felt like she had some connection to him.Zell just went around acting like a clown,and selphie was playing neive.I think that is one of the reasons i never liked selphie:She seemed too childish,to the point where it kind of hurt the game.When i see vanille in FFXIII,she reminds me a lot of that innocence that selphie had.Jumping around on rocks,acting cute and singing.Overall though:i think it made selphie a rather bland character.Actually:Zell was quite bland too,and so was irvine.I also never understood the fascination people had with seifer.Seifer seemed rather boring.He was just your typical teenager rebelling against society.

Seifer was also rather weak.You beat him i think:at least 2 times in this game.

I liked kefka because he was clearly nuts,and suffered from delusion of grandeur.
I liked kuja,because i understood his worries about being used and going to die.He used queen brahne,and made her think she had controll.
I liked golbez,because he had clear connections to cecil,and had a kickass music.I also think he makes a great opposite to cecil.Its a shame he wasn't the main villain,because he is obviously a better villain than zeromus.
Xdeath was rather weak a bit.He appears really late.because he appeared so late,development was relatively minor in comparison to what it could have been.He still had more development than zeromus and jenova though.Jenova and zeromus were pretty bland overall villains.

Edea:I think she is probably one of the worse and most clich� villains i have seen in final fantasy.When i saw the endgame and ingame from spoony,i was like:WOW!! that is pretty damm clich�.She goes up to the president of whatever his name was who has a zombie clone,and then says:FOOLS!! pathetic fools.She gives some sort of obvious evil villain type of speech,and i was like:WOW!! that is seriously clich�.
I think edea has to be one of the least interesting villains i have seen.
The game may be 13 years old,but for gods sake!! couldn't they have used more sublety?

topopoz
09-27-2011, 06:29 PM
Well.. I think he did have a point in some things.
He raised some damn good points...



I found much of the dialogue to be filler,and i don't like cid in this game.

The game almost doesn't have an identity of itself... Many stuff are made for just because.



I did like squall,which is strange since everyone seems to hate squall.I am not doing this to be different,i seriously feel that way about the game.I can't stand cloud,and his mindless fanboy zombie horde made him into probably the most hated character of all time.Squall on the other hand:I find him more interesting than cloud.Its almost like squall has a personality disorder,or some sort of antisocial disorder.

He doesn't trust anyone since his sister abandoned him,and he becomes a nervous wreck when dealing with stressfull situations.
I like the inner monologue as well.I like hearing his thoughts about thing and how nervous he becomes strolling back and fourth worried about the slightest thing.

Judging from this post I'll assume that you haven't finished Disc 1 still... The shift in Squall's Character is pulled right out of the ass... That's the big issue.

And what's the deal Hating FFVII characters just because of it's fanbase? Throw your hate to the fanbase rather than the game itself. Because VII, Haters and fanboys aside. IS one of the best FF games.




The problem with ff8 is:There are maybe only 2 characters i like,maybe 3:

Squall
Quistis and laguna.
Quistis,felt like she had some connection to him.Zell just went around acting like a clown,and selphie was playing neive.I think that is one of the reasons i never liked selphie:She seemed too childish,to the point where it kind of hurt the game.When i see vanille in FFXIII,she reminds me a lot of that innocence that selphie had.Jumping around on rocks,acting cute and singing.Overall though:i think it made selphie a rather bland character.Actually:Zell was quite bland too,and so was irvine.I also never understood the fascination people had with seifer.Seifer seemed rather boring.He was just your typical teenager rebelling against society.

Seifer was also rather weak.You beat him i think:at least 2 times in this game.

I liked kefka because he was clearly nuts,and suffered from delusion of grandeur.
I liked kuja,because i understood his worries about being used and going to die.He used queen brahne,and made her think she had controll.
I liked golbez,because he had clear connections to cecil,and had a kickass music.I also think he makes a great opposite to cecil.Its a shame he wasn't the main villain,because he is obviously a better villain than zeromus.
Xdeath was rather weak a bit.He appears really late.because he appeared so late,development was relatively minor in comparison to what it could have been.He still had more development than zeromus and jenova though.Jenova and zeromus were pretty bland overall villains.

Edea:I think she is probably one of the worse and most clich� villains i have seen in final fantasy.When i saw the endgame and ingame from spoony,i was like:WOW!! that is pretty damm clich�.She goes up to the president of whatever his name was who has a zombie clone,and then says:FOOLS!! pathetic fools.She gives some sort of obvious evil villain type of speech,and i was like:WOW!! that is seriously clich�.
I think edea has to be one of the least interesting villains i have seen.
The game may be 13 years old,but for gods sake!! couldn't they have used more sublety?

Not going to say anything about this for now... First tell me In which part of the story are you on. I don't want to spoil anything.

Nostalgia gamer
09-27-2011, 09:19 PM
[QUOTE=topopoz;1805128]He raised some damn good points...



The game almost doesn't have an identity of itself... Many stuff are made for just because.

That is a sign of bad design.

Judging from this post I'll assume that you haven't finished Disc 1 still... The shift in Squall's Character is pulled right out of the ass... That's the big issue.

I'm on disk 2,and so far he seems rather interesting
I need to be i think,on disk 3 to get ragnarok.

And what's the deal Hating FFVII characters just because of it's fanbase? Throw your hate to the fanbase rather than the game itself. Because VII, Haters and fanboys aside. IS one of the best FF games.

The fanbase is retarded,but that aside:I have 2 types of dsilike for ff7:

1:the minor dislike,which involves me not liking cloud the character,or sephiroth the character.Actually:cait sith is one of my top most disliked ff7 characters.
2:Disliking cloud and sephiroth more because of overexposure,and the fanboys who won't shut up about it and all have names like:Sepphiroth sephiroth saphiroth sefiroth seffiroth Cloud Cloud1 etc etc.

The game is decent,but i am seriously tired of hearing about only just ff7.
Why do you think i play ff tactics? want me to answer?
I play ff tactics because i'm a fan of rpgs,not a fan of just 1 game.
I may love ff4 and ff6,but they aren't the only games i play.If i heard about nothing but ff4 or ff4,i would get really tired of it quick.

Also:i'm one of those that thinks ff6 and ff9 and ff tactics are better.

I don't think its a bad game,but i do think its massively overrated.

Darth Revan
09-28-2011, 11:55 AM
All I'll say to this is: To each their own. Personally, FFVIII is one of my favorite FF's for a single reason alone. True it has it's faults, but every game has faults, and there's no such thing as a 100% universally accepted perfect game, as perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

Olde
09-28-2011, 03:04 PM
Personally, FFVIII is one of my favorite FF's for a single reason alone.

May I ask what reason? (Don't worry, I won't bash you based or the game based on it)

Darth Revan
09-28-2011, 03:33 PM
May I ask what reason? (Don't worry, I won't bash you based or the game based on it)

Someone who was once very dear and near to me, who passed away in 2003... FFVIII was her favorite, and for that reason it's my favorite as well.

Nostalgia gamer
09-28-2011, 03:39 PM
I understand that the death of a person and that game leaves a connection,but i think it is because you already liked that game,and you had an experience together that lead you to think of him/her when you play that game.

People like games because:they enjoy the gameplay and generally connect to the story/characters.
If the story and characters are compelling enough to them,they will connect somehow and leave an impact on them.

At least:for me its this way.I try to find some connection,because if i can't connect to the characters story/i find it hard to connect to the game.

A movie game/musical piece may make me think of a person,but it might not necessarily mean i like it.

I believe you truly had a connection with the game and an experience that left an impact before this person left this world.

Darth Revan
09-28-2011, 03:45 PM
Considering I knew that person since I was little and was in a relationship with her for 8 years also contributed to it. I admit, I did like FFVIII when I first got it back in September 1999, but it wasn't until she started playing it that it became that FFVIII was 'our' game... if that makes sense.

Nostalgia gamer
09-28-2011, 04:03 PM
That makes a lot of sense.

Sort of like:Special connection you had playing it together that made it fun?
Sounds like you were quite lucky with that person you had in your life.Like that special someone left quite an impact on you.
If you don't want to talk about it,i understand.I wouldn't want to make you feel sad and all.

Isley Of The North
09-29-2011, 05:48 AM
Judging from this post I'll assume that you haven't finished Disc 1 still... The shift in Squall's Character is pulled right out of the ass... That's the big issue.

Its apart of his character development Read analysis for more info (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/605802-dissidia-012-duodecim-final-fantasy/59168589)

topopoz
09-29-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm really amused how many people try to make sense of things on FFVIII Story and Characters. Is even more ridiculous than VII sometimes you know... Not fun...

Nostalgia gamer
09-29-2011, 01:43 PM
Holy shit kratos,that is exactly what i was saying all the time,and you just comfirmed it too.
I kept saying:he's an introvert.He doesn't tell people his feelings because he doesn't trust anyone.

As for what toppoz says:The story seems very silly.

The whole thing of the orphanage was beyond stupid,and some of those characters do really stupid things.
Rinoa gets caught by edea. She was specifically told:don't do this,or you will mess up the plans.
I don't particularly care,for the overly girly moments in games.Things like the romance remind me of a romcom,and i don't like rom coms at all.

I found the whole fisherman's village reaction of squall interesting,because he questions himself and wonders if perhaps he is pushing people away by being too untrusting of them.

Seifer is a fucking moron.His actions to be rebellious and bad,made him a minion of edea,and he fails miserably at his job.
Seifer is just an angsty loser guy.

I never liked selphie,and i'l say it again:She annoys me.She annoys me with her:Innocence and neiveness.She seems to be waay too neive for someone her age,and way too cutesy.She seems rather shallow as a character overall,because it feels as if she doesn't really evolve much past it at all.

Irvine:Irvine remains the same.The same coy attitude he has,with the hopeless romantic who goes after girls and stops being cute after the first time and becomes stupid.Its no wonder i don't like him.He acts shy and tries to pretend he is humble,but in reality:he is a little vain.

He isn't as annoying as someone like:zelos from tales of symphonia,but he's still a bit annoying.His speech of him being a loner and complaining about it,is not exactly very good.Many characters are loners,even squall is a loner.Sephiroth from ff7 is a loner and so is cloud.
He made the choice to be a sniper,so he should live with it and shut up about it.

Lets see:Edea:

Edea Does get it made for her as squall does the stupid thing in helping her compress time.Her dialogue was very clich�,and you could tell from a mile away that she is obviously evil.There seems to be no subtleness to her at all,and rather she is very direct about being evil.
I personally:think that its the kind of cheezy that is bad.

Its not like parasite eve:Which is so clich� that it breaks boundaries and becomes simply awesome.Things like:Daniel the cop,is your typical cop from one of your typical 90's cop movies.I have never seen anything like it in a game,and it works really well with the main character(aya brea)

The plot seems really slow in ff8,and it seems to take forever to build up.We get some bullshit about a satelite and wanting to broadcast,but then i wonder why go through all this trouble?

The reasons for galbadia's attack seem rather vague,and it seems like going through a whole lot of trouble for nothing.

Later on about a war that galbadia has with a different nation which i can't remember its name.We find out,from multiple dream sequences.

Our introduction,leaves us with even more law defying questions like:Why does ward throw an anchor?

Another question is:Why the name norg? If norg is an alien,then why isn't he flying in some space ship away from the garden and being caught? why make it so easy on the team?

Why is cid such a coward? He knew what he was dealing with,and yet he did nothing in the past to prevent the garden from going into a chaotic state.Squall had to deal with it,proving that he is incompetent.

The only thing i saw which seemed to save the day,was thanks to squall and team's effort,not cid.
If it wasn't for squall's efforts,the garden would have been destroyed.

IDX
09-30-2011, 07:12 PM
I'm just going to add my few cents, Nostalgia Gamer, because from your other posts about your reasoning behind not liking certain games, it seems either you haven't played them or you don't fully understand a few things happening. So I'll just clear a few things up with this post for ya.


I don't particularly care,for the overly girly moments in games.Things like the romance remind me of a romcom,and i don't like rom coms at all.

This game's theme is "love". So romance is the key element for this FF game.


Seifer is a fucking moron.His actions to be rebellious and bad,made him a minion of edea,and he fails miserably at his job.
Seifer is just an angsty loser guy.
We have to remember that all the characters are kids 17-18 and kids around this age do act as he does, but in a much less overdramatic fashion.


I never liked selphie,and i'l say it again:She annoys me.She annoys me with her:Innocence and neiveness.She seems to be waay too neive for someone her age,and way too cutesy.She seems rather shallow as a character overall,because it feels as if she doesn't really evolve much past it at all.
Japanese girls around Selphie's age also tend to act as Selphie does. Just because they don't act that way where you are (some do here but not much) doesn't mean it's unrealistic. I liked Selphie's attitude actually. Definitely one of those types that will do what she wants in a non-confrontational way and an overall friendly person (as you would notice throughout the game).


Irvine:Irvine remains the same.The same coy attitude he has,with the hopeless romantic who goes after girls and stops being cute after the first time and becomes stupid.Its no wonder i don't like him.He acts shy and tries to pretend he is humble,but in reality:he is a little vain.

He isn't as annoying as someone like:zelos from tales of symphonia,but he's still a bit annoying.His speech of him being a loner and complaining about it,is not exactly very good.Many characters are loners,even squall is a loner.Sephiroth from ff7 is a loner and so is cloud.
He made the choice to be a sniper,so he should live with it and shut up about it.
Irvine is one of those kind of "everyday/cliche guys" who tries to look cool in different ways. And it's not unheard of for a sniper to choke up when they have to shoot someone. Although I find him annoying because I hate people like him, but he adds another element of comic relief for me because things never go his way and usually end up in funny situations. But Laguna beats him at that with his leg cramping up when he gets nervous alone.


Lets see:Edea:

Edea Does get it made for her as squall does the stupid thing in helping her compress time.Her dialogue was very clich�,and you could tell from a mile away that she is obviously evil.There seems to be no subtleness to her at all,and rather she is very direct about being evil.
I personally:think that its the kind of cheezy that is bad.
Remember that Edea isn't talking about this but Ultimecia. She is possessing Edea for her grand scheme to rule a world that only she can exist in (Time Compression)


The plot seems really slow in ff8,and it seems to take forever to build up.We get some bullshit about a satelite and wanting to broadcast,but then i wonder why go through all this trouble?
Galbadia wanted to repair the satellite to broadcast "something" to the entire world under Edea/Ultimecia's orders. If you don't know what this "something" is I won't spoil it for you.


The reasons for galbadia's attack seem rather vague,and it seems like going through a whole lot of trouble for nothing.

Later on about a war that galbadia has with a different nation which i can't remember its name.We find out,from multiple dream sequences.
If you want to talk about slow moving stories then I suggest playing either FF7 or the first Gears of War. Those games bore me to the point where I don't want to play them again. But vague? How does them trying to find Ellone for her special ability seem vague? This is dealing with the flashbacks and present. They were trying to capture her so the witch, Adel, could pass her powers to her and in time, Ultimecia would possess Ellone (because from what I understand, Ultimecia can only possess another sorceress/witch) and use her abilities for her plan of Time Compression. At this time, Galbadia was ruled by Adel but can't remember if Ultimecia was controlling her back then as well, but it was her plan to release Adel in Squall's time. I'm at this part in the game so there may be more to it that I can't remember but will address them when I'm done if you like.


Our introduction,leaves us with even more law defying questions like:Why does ward throw an anchor?
And old argument that is pointless. Just like Cloud and his giant sword.


Another question is:Why the name norg? If norg is an alien,then why isn't he flying in some space ship away from the garden and being caught? why make it so easy on the team?
Where the hell did you get this idea? The game says he's from the Shumi Tribe and based on what's in their hearts, they evolve into something else. Norg looks as he does because what lies in his heart; greed and selfishness. If you went to Shumi Village they talk about all that including where the Moombas come from.


Why is cid such a coward? He knew what he was dealing with,and yet he did nothing in the past to prevent the garden from going into a chaotic state.Squall had to deal with it,proving that he is incompetent.

The only thing i saw which seemed to save the day,was thanks to squall and team's effort,not cid.
If it wasn't for squall's efforts,the garden would have been destroyed.
Oh I dunno, probably because STUDENTS AND STAFF WERE HUNTING HIM DOWN? Seriously, if students were attacking other students based on if they follow Norg or Cid, what would happen if Cid just came waltzing down from his office? You might as well tell the President that's he's a coward for not fighting in the Middle East with the other soldiers because if either one showed up, they would most likely be killed because of them being a high priority target.

Now some of what I said is based on my personal tastes (I think you said you don't like Zell at some point, but he's one of my favorite characters) so if you don't notice that in some of what I typed, let me know and I'll try and clear it up for ya.

Nostalgia gamer
09-30-2011, 08:10 PM
This game's theme is "love". So romance is the key element for this FF game.
Just because its a theme of love,doesn't mean its good.I haven't beaten ff8 yet,but i'm at disk 2 already,and have seen about half of what the game has to offer so far and think its utter bullshit.

We have to remember that all the characters are kids 17-18 and kids around this age do act as he does, but in a much less overdramatic fashion.

So? Its not just immaturity,its that he's a fucking moron.
He wasted his life by not passing the test,and then he is a total loser who isn't even capable of dealing with squall,because he sucks.
If ultimecia wasn't so powerfull,he would be dead sooner.He is just angry at life and paying it back at squall because of his angst.


Japanese girls around Selphie's age also tend to act as Selphie does. Just because they don't act that way where you are (some do here but not much) doesn't mean it's unrealistic. I liked Selphie's attitude actually. Definitely one of those types that will do what she wants in a non-confrontational way and an overall friendly person (as you would notice throughout the game).

I don't care,i don't like how cutesy she is.I also don't find her interesting

Irvine is one of those kind of "everyday/cliche guys" who tries to look cool in different ways. And it's not unheard of for a sniper to choke up when they have to shoot someone. Although I find him annoying because I hate people like him, but he adds another element of comic relief for me because things never go his way and usually end up in funny situations. But Laguna beats him at that with his leg cramping up when he gets nervous alone.

Yeah well:I never liked irvine,and i still don't.I like laguna,but only because of his music.

Remember that Edea isn't talking about this but Ultimecia. She is possessing Edea for her grand scheme to rule a world that only she can exist in (Time Compression)

Ultimecia sucks because of her dialogue.It is so incredibly clich�.What kind of idiot goes to a crowd that votes for her and supports her and kills the president and says that they are fools for voting for her and that she is going to kill them or something similar?


Galbadia wanted to repair the satellite to broadcast "something" to the entire world under Edea/Ultimecia's orders. If you don't know what this "something" is I won't spoil it for you.


If you want to talk about slow moving stories then I suggest playing either FF7 or the first Gears of War. Those games bore me to the point where I don't want to play them again. But vague? How does them trying to find Ellone for her special ability seem vague? This is dealing with the flashbacks and present. They were trying to capture her so the witch, Adel, could pass her powers to her and in time, Ultimecia would possess Ellone (because from what I understand, Ultimecia can only possess another sorceress/witch) and use her abilities for her plan of Time Compression. At this time, Galbadia was ruled by Adel but can't remember if Ultimecia was controlling her back then as well, but it was her plan to release Adel in Squall's time. I'm at this part in the game so there may be more to it that I can't remember but will address them when I'm done if you like.

Still.Every time i play this game,i get so bored that i have to take a rest from this game to start it all over,It is just that boring.


And old argument that is pointless. Just like Cloud and his giant sword.

Its still stupid though.

Where the hell did you get this idea? The game says he's from the Shumi Tribe and based on what's in their hearts, they evolve into something else. Norg looks as he does because what lies in his heart; greed and selfishness. If you went to Shumi Village they talk about all that including where the Moombas come from.

Thats just another ridiculous excuse for an ugly oversized boss that adds little or nothing to the game.

Oh I dunno, probably because STUDENTS AND STAFF WERE HUNTING HIM DOWN? Seriously, if students were attacking other students based on if they follow Norg or Cid, what would happen if Cid just came waltzing down from his office? You might as well tell the President that's he's a coward for not fighting in the Middle East with the other soldiers because if either one showed up, they would most likely be killed because of them being a high priority target.

First:Why didn't they keep a manual for the garden? He's the head of the school,he should be responsible and keep things organized.
Second:He is a coward and not that good at keeping the garden.If it wasn't for squall and the team,he would be dead.

Now some of what I said is based on my personal tastes (I think you said you don't like Zell at some point, but he's one of my favorite characters) so if you don't notice that in some of what I typed, let me know and I'll try and clear it up for ya.[/QUOTE]

I don't care about zell,in fact:Zell like many ff8 characters,leave so little impression on me,that i forget them right away.One of these people is seifer.A few of the ones mentioned,go beyond that and cause me to remember out of how annoying they are like:Selphie and irvine.

I already mentioned why i don't like ff8.It is an opinion that i don't like it,get over it.

topopoz
09-30-2011, 08:44 PM
Just because its a theme of love,doesn't mean its good.I haven't beaten ff8 yet,but i'm at disk 2 already,and have seen about half of what the game has to offer so far and think its utter bullshit.


Disk 3 it's when it completely jumps the shark the so Called "Romantic" storyline. That's why I told you that Shift on Squall's Character was Le FAIL.

The game tries to focus on a Romantic Storyline but it fails miserably. And because it tries to do that. It forgets that it has a story and other characters to develop and then it just starts to pull things from nowhere just to get things moving and to finish it.


Edit: Nostalgia Gamer... When Quoting other posts you need to englobe the post between these 2 things.

The Post ID: [QUOTE=Nostalgia gamer;1808331]
The End Command: [ /QUOTE] <---- All the symbols and characters go without the Space.

It would make it easier for all of us to read your posts.

Tanis
09-30-2011, 08:49 PM
I like FF8...even with all its flaws.

Nostalgia gamer
09-30-2011, 09:56 PM
Oh well.

Tanis
09-30-2011, 11:02 PM
I like FF8 for the whole 'FF I REALLY got into during the same time I started getting into rock/anime/ect' nostalgia factor.

Personally, I'd rather play Chrono Cross if I want to have fun.

Nostalgia gamer
09-30-2011, 11:41 PM
I like FF8 for the whole 'FF I REALLY got into during the same time I started getting into rock/anime/ect' nostalgia factor.

Personally, I'd rather play Chrono Cross if I want to have fun.


My problem,is that newer final fantasies are more anime than ever.

Some games,like ff6 and ff9 are not so anime like.
You got names that aren't retarded and are real names,and not some name of an inanimate object like:cloud lightning.What is next? gun chair? bullet?

FF8 is very anime ish with seifer's fight with squall and selphie.

FF9 did have some characters that were slightly anime ish,like:Kuja the tranny,but i forgive it.
Characters like zidane exist,and fit the world better than those games previous with swords and guns mixed in.
I don't think the guns and swords mix so well together.Muskets and swords? yes they mix,because you had a time when you had those english soldiers from i think:The 1600's? or 1700's was it? with those musketeer blades.You also had swords back when cannons started,because this was in a time i think before the first muskets came into existance.

Oversized weapons has some effect,but its relatively minor.

I hate using the gunblade,because i find the timing a pain in the neck.
I absolutely hate the random limit breaks and have difficult at times getting a perfect limit break in ff8.

As for how it looks:I don't really give a shit,as long as its cool looking and works for my taste.
If its a huge 10 foot sword but it comes out with a fun gameplay mechanic that works,then ok fine whatever.If i hate the gameplay,then i might start noticing the stupidly big sword a little more,but it still won't have that big of an impact on me.

FF8 is one of those games that i really tried,but i absolutely couldn't stand the junction system.Its either too much of a pain in the ass and demands too much,or it allows for seriously overpowered combinations that break the game.

For instance:I found out that you can easily get 9999 hp with curaga,and you can sinthesize it at the first disk.
If you know the game well enough,you can even get squall's final weapon on disk 3,by collecting a bunch of cards from random players in the garden of balamb.

Tanis
10-01-2011, 12:29 AM
Random limit breaks were mostly FF9's thing.

If you hated the gunblade crap in FF8 (which I understand) you most have HATED Legend of Dragoon.

Nostalgia gamer
10-01-2011, 11:50 AM
Random limit breaks were mostly FF9's thing.

If you hated the gunblade crap in FF8 (which I understand) you most have HATED Legend of Dragoon.

FF9's limit breaks were controlled.

I could choose the limit br eak that is most powerfull.

And as for legend of dragoon:I thought it was a decent game,but it also pissed me off how hard it was at times to get a full combo attack.
The game was bloody hard in some fights,and i mean:REALLY REALLY HARD!! there is a fight in the final disk where you fight a ghost like boss who is completely optional.The second boss kicked my butt so bad,that i still remember it.

Olde
10-02-2011, 07:26 PM
I hate using the gunblade,because i find the timing a pain in the neck.
I absolutely hate the random limit breaks and have difficult at times getting a perfect limit break in ff8.

I never had a problem with the timing for the average attack. When you hear the shwing, press R1. Even with Renzokuken, it's just a matter of practice. It's not that hard. As for the Limit breaks, which ones were hard to pull off?

Let's see, the limit breaks of Quistis, Seifer, Laguna, Kiros, Ward, and Edea were just a matter of selecting which limit break you want them to use. Rinoa's Angelo attacks were random, but you could weed out the useless ones by only reading the Pet Pals that teaches the move(s) you want her to use. Rinoa's Angel Wing is random, but you could limit her attacks based on what magic you give her. Selphie's Slots allowed you to browse and select which ones you wanted to use (although actually finding the ones you wanted could be a pain). Irvine's Shot is just a matter of pressing R1 as fast as you can. Zell's limit break required you know the pattern of attacks. Squall's was just pressing R1 when it said "Hit!" and then you'd get a random ending. I don't see what's so hard about those.


FF8 is one of those games that i really tried,but i absolutely couldn't stand the junction system.Its either too much of a pain in the ass and demands too much,or it allows for seriously overpowered combinations that break the game.

For instance:I found out that you can easily get 9999 hp with curaga,and you can sinthesize it at the first disk.
If you know the game well enough,you can even get squall's final weapon on disk 3,by collecting a bunch of cards from random players in the garden of balamb.

This has been discussed to death. The way I see it, there are two big problems of the junction system. One is that the amount that a stat increases is depends on the number of spells, so obviously when people want the biggest stat increase, they'll spend time drawing magic. The other is that the game doesn't tell you which spells increase which stats by which amount, so the player is left either drawing/refining/card modding like mad or they'll just say "fuck it, this is stupid." The people who actually take the time to: 1. get the magic, and 2. experiment with stat application will reap the benefits of the junction system. And also, players who don't want to keep stocking magic can take advantage of the GF stat-raising abilities (i.e. Magic +40%, Strength+60%, etc.).

I don't see a problem with the fact that the junction system can be exploited by virtue of the fact that high-level magic can be attained early. It makes the game easy, but such a strategy is employed by the player, so he/she has nothing to complain about, as it's brought about by the player's own volition. If you don't want to raise your stats that high that early in the game, then don't do it! Second, this is a strategy that usually applies to people who have played the game at least once before. People who are just introduced to the junction system will most likely not be familiar enough to know how to exploit it. I sort of see it as a neat trick you can do on your second or third playthrough, although sure it pretty much nullifies any and all combat situations.

And by the way, you can get Squall's final weapon on Disc 1, and I still don't have a problem with that.

Now, I personally do have complaints about the game (despite enjoying it very much), so I'll probably be back to post my gripes about it later.

Nostalgia gamer
10-02-2011, 07:35 PM
Don't you mean:It depends mostly on the spell itself since each spell works on different stats?
Right now,i got death attached to str i think it is? maybe zombie.I can't remember either way,but its one of those.

I don't have ultima yet to attach to strength,but i hear it has like 3 or 4 different stats that it can max out.

Personally:i don't like the junction system at all.Far too much customization and time wasting to get those spells.

Squalls limit breaks i think are random.Even if you get it out to be perfect,there is a good chance you won't get lionheart,instead you might get renzouken or whatever other skill he has acquired.

Olde
10-03-2011, 01:31 AM
Don't you mean:It depends mostly on the spell itself since each spell works on different stats?
Right now,i got death attached to str i think it is? maybe zombie.I can't remember either way,but its one of those.

I don't have ultima yet to attach to strength,but i hear it has like 3 or 4 different stats that it can max out.

Personally:i don't like the junction system at all.Far too much customization and time wasting to get those spells.

Squalls limit breaks i think are random.Even if you get it out to be perfect,there is a good chance you won't get lionheart,instead you might get renzouken or whatever other skill he has acquired.

Yeah, I meant to say that it depends on the particular spell and the number you have of it. It's fair enough that you don't like the junction system; remember that it came out over a decade ago, and there are some things that have been outmoded. I personally don't like the materia system all that much (blasphemy, i know) because it takes way too long to master the materia, too much money to buy them, and there is just way too much customization for the weapon/armor effects for my taste, much more than even FFVIII. For some reason, I just happen to prefer the junction system although, once you have 100 of every magic in the game, there are only a few ways to organize the junction system to reap the maximum benefits for your characters.

As for Squall's limit breaks, yeah, getting the Lionheart finishing move is a pain because he tends to do Blasting Zone more often than any other one, even if you get the Renzokuken R1 trigger activity completely right. I might be mistaken, but I think the chances of him doing Lionheart are slightly higher when up against a boss. But then again, it would be really cheap if you could pull off Lionheart over and over again. Omega Weapon wouldn't even be a challenge anymore.

Nostalgia gamer
10-03-2011, 11:10 AM
I saw a video of someone using only zell to solo omega weapon.He had aura on,and spammed his punch attack thingy.
Zell sure is strong.

Tanis
10-03-2011, 12:03 PM
You know the cheapest limit break?

Fucking...THE END...

If you can get that shit down, instant kill on almost ANYTHING - including bosses, at least if they have multiple forums.

Isley Of The North
10-03-2011, 06:11 PM
You know the cheapest limit break?

Fucking...THE END...

If you can get that shit down, instant kill on almost ANYTHING - including bosses, at least if they have multiple forums.

The only problem is finding it

Nostalgia gamer
10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Walkthrough saves the day.

Tanis
10-04-2011, 12:09 AM
The only problem is finding it
It's not THAT hard.

You raise your luckiness (I forget the item) and then there's the stones - Aura+Haste - crap, works every damn time.

Nostalgia gamer
10-06-2011, 11:03 AM
You know what technique is ultra cheap? selphie's limit break.
You can have her cast a curaga early on to fully heal someone,or firaga.

Oh yeah:what about how abusive limit breaks can be in ff8? cast blind on the devil,and you can beat him up with renzoukens to your heart's content,and zell's fist smacking against him.

Just seems really cheap thing to do,i dunno.

Arron
10-11-2011, 12:14 AM
Chaeap tactic: Cast Aura on Irvine, let everyones ATB fill up,then keep hammering Circle button until irvine gets a limit break, then smash R1 for all its worth, (Armour Piercing ammo FTW!!) and there we go. Cheap win.

Nostalgia gamer
10-17-2011, 01:15 PM
Either way:I still don't think of ff8 as being that great.
It was probably the most disappointing ps1 rpg i had played at the time of its release.

CC
10-25-2011, 05:27 AM
The only thing that disappointed me were those gawd-awful unskippable tutorials laden throughout much of the first section of play (even some later on, I think). They're fine for the first or second time through, but having to sit through them every time you play is drudgery >.<

topopoz
10-25-2011, 12:39 PM
The only thing that disappointed me were those gawd-awful unskippable tutorials laden throughout much of the first section of play (even some later on, I think). They're fine for the first or second time through, but having to sit through them every time you play is drudgery >.<

Tutorials are skippable dawg.

Just Press Triangle. :P

CC
10-25-2011, 06:42 PM
Phew, thank the Lawd!! Thanks man, I knew it'd be something simple like that xD

Nostalgia gamer
10-31-2011, 07:19 PM
Anyone here ff8?

That way they can say they hate ff8,which rhymes perfectly.
I can't honestly say it,because it would be a lie.I don't like ff8,in fact:its one of my least likely candidates to replay.

I have a problem with the gil system,because i might want to stop to do the card game,and the game will punish me by lowering my seed rank.I think it is one of the first times in a game,that i literally am punished for taking the game slow and wanting to do things i want,plus:money is a pain in the ass to get.

Isley Of The North
11-01-2011, 01:39 AM
Anyone here ff8?

That way they can say they hate ff8,which rhymes perfectly.
I can't honestly say it,because it would be a lie.I don't like ff8,in fact:its one of my least likely candidates to replay.

I have a problem with the gil system,because i might want to stop to do the card game,and the game will punish me by lowering my seed rank.I think it is one of the first times in a game,that i literally am punished for taking the game slow and wanting to do things i want,plus:money is a pain in the ass to get.

You must not know of the Money trick.

Nostalgia gamer
11-01-2011, 02:10 AM
You must not know of the Money trick.

What money trick? tell me please?

Isley Of The North
11-01-2011, 07:02 AM
What money trick? tell me please?

Final Fantasy VIII Cheats, Codes, and Secrets for PlayStation - GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197343-final-fantasy-viii/cheats) scroll all the way to the buttom.

Tanis
11-01-2011, 07:07 AM
I just Googled the test answers and made my money that way.

topopoz
11-01-2011, 12:25 PM
Question... WHY DA FUCK DO YOU WANT MONEY IN FFVIII?

Olde
11-02-2011, 06:13 AM
Why? Take this for example. You can go to a pet store and buy Junction scroll such as Str-J Scrolls, Spr-J Scrolls, etc. Buy 10 of those and refine them into GF-ability items such as Power Wrist, Force Armlet, etc. Get 10 of those to refine into the higher version (Hyper Wrist, Magic Armlet, etc.). Get 10 of those and refine them into Str Up, Spr Up, etc. You can max your stats this way, but as you can see, the prices add up.

topopoz
11-02-2011, 12:21 PM
Seriously?...

I've never used gil on the game because refinery and Monster Drop managed to be more than enough to make the game a cakewalk.

Nostalgia gamer
11-03-2011, 12:25 PM
Hey toppoz,have you ever tried single character challenge versus omega?

Like:Only squall versus omega weapon
Only zell versus omega weapon
Only irvine versus omega weapon

topopoz
11-03-2011, 03:37 PM
Nope, never tried.

Dragoncurry
11-04-2011, 01:55 AM
I dont think I've disliked any main character as much as I disliked Squall.

Angelus-Mortis
11-07-2011, 08:37 AM
I didn't like FF8 much either. I find the draw system tedious and annoying, and I didn't feel the storyline was compelling. It might just be a taste issue, as I didn't find the love story all that romantic, and I didn't like that Squall halfway through the game goes all mushy on Rinoa for no real reason at all (since when does he care?) I've heard people complain that he's a selfish emo prick with bad communication. I can see how that might annoy some people. Despite the failings of the draw system, I didn't actually find the game all that hard. After you get the ultimate weapons, limit breaks (can't remember if that's what they're called), and the better GFs, drawing 100 of anything becomes essentially pointless, especially since you can probably use GF abilities to obtain them.

On the upside, at least it had a nice music score and graphics. I guess that's all people care about these days with the later FF's though, is it?

Nostalgia gamer
11-07-2011, 01:20 PM
On the upside, at least it had a nice music score and graphics. I guess that's all people care about these days with the later FF's though, is it?[/QUOTE]

And this is why new games suck a lot of times.It seems like games are made for the game companies,rather than the gamers themselves.The game designers seem to just want to show off how powerfull their engines are,and special effects of cutscenes and weepy melodramatic scenes.I miss the old games of the 90's.

I'm playing ff8 right now,and i'm attacking galbadia with squall and team.I just saw a garden of some sort of galbadia,and i gave orders to the people.It was kinda cool to be giving orders with squall,and watch as the invasion starts.At least it isn't that:UGH!! fisherman's horizon song.

I know some people really like it,but that song has to be one of the most boring songs of all time.
I can take the theme for tifa which i don't like,and the terra theme which i have outgrown,but that theme for fisherman's horizon just plain sucks.

Another rant:Right after you defeat seifer and edea,you warp to balamb garden.
One minute,squall and rinoa were on the floor,and the next minute they are in the garden of balamb.

Oh yeah:Edea mentioned something about protecting elleone.

Nostalgia gamer
11-12-2011, 06:33 PM
For an rpg,there sure isn't that many dungeons and towns.
Kinda linear for an rpg.

Suikoden 1 and 2,and even suikoden 4 which is newer and one of the most linear rpgs i've played,and one of the shittiest,has more towns and dungeons than ff8.

WTF is wrong with programmers? 90% of the fucking time is spent with junctioning shitty spells,so you don't royally suck.
And if you don't cheat,you could be there till next fucking century.I mean:What the hell man? I spent at least 5 hours farming cards for getting a regen ring,which costs 10 cards and gives a total of 25 full life each,i mean:WTF? Who programmed this piece of shit gameplay? Who thought this would have been a good idea? No wonder people hate this game.

I used to be thinking:Why do people hate this game? it seems alright,but it was because i never played it entirely.When i first played the card queen and got farther and was sick of farming spells for junctioning with,and then saw how many abilities there are to give to gfs and the amount of farming needed,it remind me of why i hated farming in everquest.

A little bit of farming and grinding is fine,but when it becomes excessive and just becomes needlessly tedious,then it is just flat out a bad design.Suikoden 4 was badly designed,and it got a lot of hate for a good reason.I think i even would dare call this game:The worse final fantasy game,worse than FFXIII,because at least while FFXIII was short and boring when you had to farm for hours,it wasn't nearly as tedious and boring as farming full life spells.Fuck this game and fuck those assholes who made this.

Angelus-Mortis
11-12-2011, 07:27 PM
Just imagine all the time first time players not using a walkthrough spend, trying to draw 100 of every spell. What a waste of time! All the early spells amount to nothing when you're junctioning them because they're crap compared to spells like Ultima. And I'm sure they'd rather get on with the story than think they'd get stronger for having 100 of the spells they do have access to. Was that what they were hoping players would do so that they'd later realize they didn't have to draw 100 of everything because they'd learn about GF abilities later?

And if I want to junction Aura, I have to not use that spell. Or at least use it less than 100 times somehow. Way to render a useful spell useless.

I actually never bothered to get 100 of any spell because well, I couldn't be bothered. If there was a way to refine stuff I didn't need for weapons, I did it, but I didn't feel like going out of my way to get the items or cards that I would need to get those spells. The game is actually easy enough with the ultimate weapons, limit breaks and better GFs. I'm just complaining about the design of the system. Games can be both easy and annoying at the same time.

Nostalgia gamer
11-12-2011, 07:44 PM
I actually never bothered to get 100 of any spell because well, I couldn't be bothered. If there was a way to refine stuff I didn't need for weapons, I did it, but I didn't feel like going out of my way to get the items or cards that I would need to get those spells. The game is actually easy enough with the ultimate weapons, limit breaks and better GFs. I'm just complaining about the design of the system. Games can be both easy and annoying at the same time.[/QUOTE]

I only refine good spells for junctioning to stats.
I try out something,and if its good,i keep it and if not,i stop farming it.

You can't get just 1 spell if you want it to be worth wild for stats.1 full cure is not going to do much in comparison to perhaps:100 tornados in hp stat,or 100 curaga.

Even when farming cards for items for upgrades,its still extremely tedious.
I don't mind the story or characters that much so far.Sure the whole change of squall where he kneels down by rinoa at disk 3 made me laugh a little.He was like:Rinoa are you ok rinoa RINOA!! Then again:I don't blame him.All the sudden, the team collapses on the floor after edea is defeated,and he appears in a room and find that rinoa is comatose.

I don't even mind zell,and zell is disliked a lot,along with squall.

I like squall more than cloud strife so far,but that is because his sort of personality disorder interests me.
I find him kind of strange,and an anti social.

Darth Revan
11-13-2011, 01:00 AM
At least you did play it and came to that decision on your own Nostalgia gamer, and didn't hate it for the sake of hating it.

Nostalgia gamer
11-13-2011, 01:15 AM
Its funny,cause i dislike FFXIII,and some people insist that i'm wrong for finding hope whiny and annoying,and finding cid raines to be a dumbass.And when i complain about ff7 and the villain,i get backtalk for finding him a bit over the top as a villain,and i never really felt threatened.

FF8 is entertaining,because its fun to laugh at the love story.I know that sounds mean,but i can't help it.

Darth Revan
11-13-2011, 01:22 AM
To each their own. Like I've always said "There is no such thing as a universally accepted, 100% perfect game", and that can be said for every game made. However, I agree with you about FFXIII although probably in more... explosive means of description (which I won't go into detail in this thread).

Nostalgia gamer
11-13-2011, 01:59 AM
I just got to the corny love scene on ragnarok.Is the rinoa song with lyrics:Eyes on me?

Darth Revan
11-13-2011, 02:28 AM
Yes, that is the song. Personally, I felt that scene would've had more impact if instead of the vocal song, a instrumental version was used.

Nostalgia gamer
11-13-2011, 12:54 PM
I wish the game designers didn't put in random rule.Its just plain unfair,because there is almost no way to win with the hands you are given most of the time.

This game could have definitely been more fun,if random rule didn't exist,along with sudden death being the other rule i don't like.

Meltigemini
11-19-2011, 11:18 AM
If you don't want Random screwing you over, you can refine some low level cards into items so that they don't come up.

I used to hate random as well, but since playing some online TT have come to like it. :p Learn to use the Plus rule to good effect. Most computer players' AI are thick as shit but there's the occasional player who knows how to use the rules properly so you have to beat them at their own game (I think Edea was the best player the game and Centra's rules are Random and Plus!)

Nostalgia gamer
11-19-2011, 01:17 PM
That is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

1:The reason high lvl stuff is done,is because you can get 100 spells like triple instantly,or 3 hyper wrists for str up potions.

Low lvl cards=low level spells and ingredients.
High level spells=really good high lvl spells.

Darth Revan
11-19-2011, 11:18 PM
Like Meltigemini said, the easiest way to counter the Random rule, is to refine all low level cards (which is the generally accepted method of countering the Random rule since the game's release), leaving you holding only the powerful cards. It's still annoying, but less so.

Nostalgia gamer
11-20-2011, 03:09 PM
Ahh,i see.

BasilCulex
11-23-2011, 02:53 AM
-The money system (how you make money)
-The Junction system altogether
-The fact that enemies power up the more you grind.

^ That is why I hate FFVIII, other than that, its good.

Nostalgia gamer
02-16-2012, 02:15 PM
There is something i-ve been meaning to ask:How come i can-t use the gf shop system?
Is it a bug that i cant bring up the shop?

Enkidoh
02-16-2012, 07:22 PM
From what I remember, Call-Shop is an ability that is selected from the main Menu and lets you revisit any shop you've previously been to in the past (this is how it's described in the strategy guide).

The only GF to have this ability is Tonberry, so you'll have to equip him to someone in order to use the ability too. It's pretty much essential in disc 4, due to towns being sealed off and unvisitable at that time.

Nostalgia gamer
03-08-2012, 11:55 PM
I just watched the ragnarok scene again,and i still can't keep a straight face.Dammit,this game still makes me crack up.

Oh yeah:i think that the ending is better than the ff7 ending.I was also happy that the prologue theme of final fantasy was in there,even if it was in the credits.It also sounded good.

Blockinlick
07-28-2012, 01:43 AM
Hate it so far.

I'm on the 2nd disc and I can hardly find the will to continue playing it, it's almost unbearable.

I see everyone complaining about characters... it's not even the characters or the story that bothers me.

1. I hate the Junction system with a passion
2. I hate how every part that involves "A destination to B Destination" always involves some not-so-obvious hidden bulls*** passage/way/Easter Egg that takes 20 mins to find. For instance, the hidden door under the gate [Before you try to assassinate Edea], the "Jump on the waterwheel" crap in the sewers, finding the Captain in Balamb 2nd disc [Raijin] and so much more... it's like that EVERY time you need to get from A to B and it's so irritating it makes you want to break your foot off up in the games ass.
3. I hate that the fighting is monotonous, despite the Junction system being frustratingly tedious. Like most critics say, it's basically either GF GF Heal GF GF Repeat or you end up farming a thousand Magics just to be competent.
4. I hate the idea of stock piling Magic like items... it's just one more tedious thing to micromanage and it's dreadfully slow and boring to do.

So far, it's like a bad repetition of Easter Egg Hunt --> Boss fight, GF Spam --> Easter Egg Hunt... RARELY do you ever get a chance to train your characters because the plot just railroads you from one plot angle to the next without giving you the opportunity to train.

Honestly, I just don't see the logic behind anyone who likes FF8 beyond maybe it's story/characters/graphics... really, that's the only thing it has to offer because the gameplay is god-awful.

Tanis
07-28-2012, 02:07 AM
@Blockinlick:<BR>
I think, IDK, maybe...you just SUCK AT IT?<BR>
<BR>
1) There's PLENTY of time to train, in most sections.<Br>
2) The Junction system is BROKEN AS HELL, and that's a BENEFIT to you.
3) I RARELY used the GF's in battle, I used them as stat builders and their AP crap.

Olde
07-28-2012, 02:32 AM
@Blockinlick:<BR>
I think, IDK, maybe...you just SUCK AT IT?<BR>
<BR>
1) There's PLENTY of time to train, in most sections.<Br>
2) The Junction system is BROKEN AS HELL, and that's a BENEFIT to you.
3) I RARELY used the GF's in battle, I used them as stat builders and their AP crap.

Give him a break, he only picked this game up a few days ago.

I'll admit that using the GFs in battle is kind of a cop-out, but they are the big damage dealers when you don't want to waste your time drawing magic or playing Triple Triad.

Blockinlick, I agree with you that there are a ton of secrets/hidden things in this game. Hell, a good portion of the GFs are hidden as drawable selections in boss fights, so if you miss them, you only have one more chance to get them at the end of the game. And that sucks. The drawing magic part is the thing that gets to most people (see Nostalgia gamer above). Let me respond to your comments:

1. Most people, in fact, hate the junction system. Actually, I personally like it a lot because it allows for individual customization, it allows for status and elemental defense and offense regardless of weapon-type or character, and it can easily make your characters powerhouses.

2. I agree that there are hidden things, but the game's not impossible. Your comment made me think about it, though, and I think that that is just how games were made. They told a story with a lot of twists and turns and lots of 'puzzles' (for lack of a better word). Back in the day, I thought that was fun. Nowadays games are much more straightforward (see FFXIII and pretty much any FPS) and simple.

3. There are lots of alternative ways to fight other than using GFs. Think about it, in FFVII, were you constantly spamming summons? Probably not, and in that game too you had to grind a ton to level your materia up. Try using limit breaks, magic, command abilities, items, status-junction, and elemental-junction for battles because they take care of monsters much more quickly (and the GF summons are quite monotonous).

4. Most people agree with this, too. For some reason, it never got so time-consuming or boring that I outright hated the game. Granted, I've often gotten frustrated with it, but it's become a necessary evil that I can somehow overlook when playing FFVIII.

Tanis
07-28-2012, 04:18 AM
The worst part of FF8 is Disc 4.

WHATEVER YOU WANNA DO GET IT DONE BEFORE THE 4TH DISC!

First time I played FF8 I wasn't prepared and had a hell of a harder time then I should have because of it.
>:(

Blockinlick
07-29-2012, 01:39 AM
@Blockinlick:<BR>
I think, IDK, maybe...you just SUCK AT IT?<BR>
<BR>
1) There's PLENTY of time to train, in most sections.<Br>
2) The Junction system is BROKEN AS HELL, and that's a BENEFIT to you.
3) I RARELY used the GF's in battle, I used them as stat builders and their AP crap.

1) No... from the point I'm at and back [Invading the Galbadian Garden: Tried to beat the Cerberus GF, but failed lol] I was railroaded from halfway through the first disc [I don't remember the exact point], all the way to the end of the "Garden Master Norg chapter" without any way to train for very long [No long term healing options (Item shop/Hotel/etc) and if there were, then random encounters weren't available at that time]. If I wanted to train, I had to exhaust my potion stock and I wasn't willing to do that]... that's pretty much an entire CD worth of not being able to train your characters. Thanks for trying to defend this crappy game with a false claim though.

2) Nothing is broken if it's too time consuming for most to even find it worth it. Not everyone here is unemployed, lives with a relative, has no social life... and so on... some of us got far better and more interesting things to be doing than grind for hours on end to stock pile 100 of each desirable magic. It's not broken at all, because it's just not worth it to me.

3) Again, this is you being condescending [Even though you clearly didn't read what I had written correctly] because you've got the time to waste stock piling magic. I ALREADY knew that if you stock up and junction magic just right that you don't need GF summons.

Actually, I'm confident I've got this junction system figured out. I know how it works now and how to get the most out of it, thanks to help from some insightful help from others... however, that doesn't take away from the fact that I had to study the s**t like it was a f*****g science exam just to get the hang of it. That to me makes it a terrible system.

Someone here mentioned that I should try what FFVII's Materia system had to offer. I know ever nook and cranny of using materia, there isn't anything I haven't done with it. In fact, I've even done the complete opposite and beat the game from start to finish without ever using materia [And surprisingly it took half the time]. It's simple, yet customizable... how I like it, unlike this crappy junction system.

Tanis
07-29-2012, 07:44 AM
If you're not willing to do SOME kind of grind, you probably shouldn't be playing a JRPG.

Blockinlick
07-29-2012, 04:49 PM
If you're not willing to do SOME kind of grind, you probably shouldn't be playing a JRPG.

I like grinding usually... but stocking thousands of items isn't my idea of a fun grind. I'll power level to an extent [If I get a level up less than every 5-10 mins, I keep leveling... if I don't, I stop], I'll gather SOME magic [I've collected 100 Thunders, Thundaras, and Blizzaras], and I have amassed a lot of items through card games by Card Modding. I do grind... but I do it in a way that doesn't completely bore & burn me out of it all.

nidsopgfnmoignaphjmwi
07-31-2012, 07:01 AM
Junction system I can handle and I really enjoyed the card game but the story line I did not really like. I mean, maybe there is something I am forgetting, but the only characters that seemed to have any significance story line wise after the halfway point were Squall and Rinoa. I'd even go as far as to say the other 4 party members could have been replaced with generic SeeD members and the story would still not end up being affected all that much. Oh and the romance with Squall and Rinoa, ugh, talk about cheesy, and I doubt the whole "I don't think I really like this girl at all but deep down I really do even though I will not be aware of this until her life is in danger" angle was done for the first time ever in this game.

IDX
08-01-2012, 01:06 AM
Not sure if you overlooked this, Blockinlick, but if you want to draw the maximum amount of magic from an enemy easily (which I think is 9) then boost your magic stat. The higher it is then the more you can draw at once.

But besides the turning wheels in the sewers (although I thought it was obvious after thinking it was a dead end the first time around), the hidden entrance for the whole sorceress assassination chapter was pointed out to you from the get go. That never gave me a problem even the first time I ever played this game when I was a child. But the monsters level up with you so no matter what level you are it is impossible for any boss to be "impossible" to beat. To me, because you're not taking advantage of the junction system like most people do, you're playing the game where it has some kind of challenge and for me, if a game isn't that challenging then it's not really fun.

In short, stop being impatient and quick to jump to conclusions. I told you the basics of how to take advantage of the junction system if you want to go that route. But you don't have to use potions to heal your HP because, once again, with a high magic stat also increases the Cure spell's restoration rates. Hell, you can easily cure over 1000 HP with the lowest cure spell if your magic is strong enough. But by going with your post alone, I have a feeling you'd be wanting to take advantage of the system because of your whining over virtually nothing except what I stated above. Besides, there are other ways of getting different magic spells without having to draw them. And being in the area of the game that you're in, I thought you would've realized this by now.

Drama.
08-07-2012, 08:47 PM
They're all great games. There is not a single Final Fantasy that has failed to disappoint me. Even 13 has it's ups and downs. Just like 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, and even the old school ones as well. They always have problems, but their flaws really don't compare to the pros.

Phoen-IX
08-08-2012, 12:10 AM
They're all great games. There is not a single Final Fantasy that has failed to disappoint me. Even 13 has it's ups and downs. Just like 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, and even the old school ones as well. They always have problems, but their flaws really don't compare to the pros.

FF X-2, really? Do tell [:

Nostalgia gamer
08-14-2012, 09:09 AM
Let me teach you something:

Early on, you are bound to suck.There is almost nothing you can do.Even if you get the lionheart early, you'd do up to 1000 damage without junctioned spells.You also don't have access to all those great spells, or the gf character boosting abilities, nor the other goodies you get later.Experiment a little, and listen to what people tell you.

If you are on disk two, then you might have access to tornado, maybe firaga, thundaga, and blizzaga.

daggx
11-02-2012, 12:27 AM
well, reviving the thread if you dont like a game, you just dont play it and period, end of discuss, by the way ff8 is one of my favorites

hipstersloveme
11-08-2012, 03:58 PM
I disapprove of this whole thread.

Nostalgia gamer
12-10-2012, 01:43 AM
Here is my problem with ff8:To get spells to junction, i need to either draw spells, or mod cards.At first, triple triad is fun, but quickly becomes tedious when eliminating card rules.I actually am using the rng exploit to quicken the process of abolishing rules.Eveb like that,it takes forever.

I do like squall though, and am finding myself enjoying the silly scenes with selphie, like:everybody, peace and LOOOVE! And everybody just goes :Oh boy! I also find seifer amusing how he taunts zell, but i feel he is out of place, because he isn't even evil i think.Sure, he tortured squall, but then he gives up and goes fishing.After raijin and fujin put their foot down, and decide to help the seeds, he slowly loses every supporter and turns his back on ultimecia.Why? i suppose because he realises he lost his only two friends, and was alone.Edea had the right idea, but was clich� as hell.She talks like a comic book villain, but at least she was a coherent villain.

HeroandKitty
12-10-2012, 02:39 AM
Here is my problem with ff8:To get spells to junction, i need to either draw spells, or mod cards.At first, triple triad is fun, but quickly becomes tedious when eliminating card rules.I actually am using the rng exploit to quicken the process of abolishing rules.Eveb like that,it takes forever.

I do like squall though, and am finding myself enjoying the silly scenes with selphie, like:everybody, peace and LOOOVE! And everybody just goes :Oh boy! I also find seifer amusing how he taunts zell, but i feel he is out of place, because he isn't even evil i think.Sure, he tortured squall, but then he gives up and goes fishing.After raijin and fujin put their foot down, and decide to help the seeds, he slowly loses every supporter and turns his back on ultimecia.Why? i suppose because he realises he lost his only two friends, and was alone.Edea had the right idea, but was clich� as hell.She talks like a comic book villain, but at least she was a coherent villain.

I agree that the junction system was tedious but it really wasn't as much work as you seem to make it out to be. In fact if you casually draw from the first few bosses in the game you'll have all the magic you'll ever need, provided you level your characters and your summons. Give Squall Diablos, teach Diablos "Darkness" and equip Squall's Attack with Absorb. Equip his elemental defenses with Flare or Ultima. You should know how to crit every time by timing the trigger so now you Crit every time, sacrificing your health to do even more damage, and absorbing the damage into your health thus you cannot die from attacking or from elemental attacks and you'll have godly damage at the same time.

I also found that I was able to run through the game without stopping to stock up on anything by spending 2 or 3 hours in the training room at the first portion of the game. The puts you way above the necesary level to complete the first few boss fights and the casual fights+boss fights alone will keep you above and beyond for the rest of the game.

Taking it a step further, say you don't want to spend that much time in the training room, if you wait until later in the game and use the tips from above you can go to the island of Heaven and level extremely quickly. Because Squall will always be overpowered for his level you should be able to handle *most* enemies on IoHeaven/Hell by around level 50 if my memory is correct (forgive me if I remember incorrectly).

TL;DR Summary:
Junction system is as tedious as you make it. You can spend time gathering all the magic you want, or just grab what you need and go.

Tanis
12-10-2012, 09:06 AM
FF8's battle system is like FF2's battle system.

GREAT idea, POOR execution.

Nostalgia gamer
12-10-2012, 10:09 AM
the story is also the dumbest story concieved in ff series, and that is one heck of an accomplishment.The orphanage part is beyond ridiculous, but i do enjoy the stupid moments, because its better than being boring, and gives more entertainment.

As for junctions, i'm aiming for the rare cards, so i need to get rid of most card rules.

---------- Post added at 04:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 AM ----------

the story is also the dumbest story concieved in ff series, and that is one heck of an accomplishment.The orphanage part is beyond ridiculous, but i do enjoy the stupid moments, because its better than being boring, and gives more entertainment.

As for junctions, i'm aiming for the rare cards, so i need to get rid of most card rules.

Tanis
12-10-2012, 10:13 AM
What pissed me off about FF8, and I love the damn game, is that is a game with so much empathizes the POWER OF LOVE...


Squall NEVER tells Riona he loves her.

THE FUCK?

HeroandKitty
12-10-2012, 02:21 PM
I fail to see how you rate VIII as the worst story in the series when you have games like XII which is all build-up and no resolution. (or really it has a resolution it's just that once it reaches the climax the game ends and the characters *tell* you the resolution.....i mean seriously. you finally find out who the mastermind is and you kill him 2 minutes later...)

In response to Tanis... are you in the right game series?
Final Fantasy I - power of courage
Final Fantasy II - same
Final Fantasy VI - Power of Love
Final Fantasy VII - Pursuit of Love and Peace
Final Fantasy VIII - Pursuit of Love
Final Fantasy IX - Power of Love, Power of True Love, and Power of Brotherly Love
Final Fantasy X - Tragedy of Love
Final Fantasy X-2 - Mystery of Love
Final Fantasy XII - Either biggest love triangle in the series or the most lead-on in the series...
Final Fantasy XIII - Sarah

Final Fantasy is a romance series, ladies and gents, sorry to be the one to break it to ya lol.

Nostalgia gamer
12-10-2012, 02:28 PM
What pissed me off about FF8, and I love the damn game, is that is a game with so much empathizes the POWER OF LOVE...


Squall NEVER tells Riona he loves her.

THE FUCK?

Tanis, eyes on me without the singing plays when you first meet rinoa, and kinda feels out of place.
I also think rinoa is a dumbass, so she is my least favourite character.

HeroandKitty
12-10-2012, 02:36 PM
+1 it did feel out of place.. I think Squall's match was Elona tbh...

though.. I can't say Rinoa is my least favorite because in truth I love Kitty to death and she acts just like Rinoa so there must be something about Rinoa I like...,just not sure what it is yet lol

Nostalgia gamer
12-10-2012, 04:23 PM
+1 it did feel out of place.. I think Squall's match was Elona tbh...

though.. I can't say Rinoa is my least favorite because in truth I love Kitty to death and she acts just like Rinoa so there must be something about Rinoa I like...,just not sure what it is yet lol


Thing is:I understand that rinoa isn't a trained seed, but man can she be dumb.Telling seifer about her mission to capture president deling was stupid, as was not listening to her father, and getting captured by ultimecia was really dumb, but quistis getting herself trapped in calway or whatever his names house, was really stupid, and poor judgement.She should have waited till after ultimecia was dead, and then explain her decision.Irvine i can forgive, because he did shoot, but Edea stopped the bullet.

HeroandKitty
12-10-2012, 06:26 PM
Irvine was placed in a hard situation. He's no older than 20, fresh out of mercenary high school (did you catch that btw? it's a high school...) and he probably had not done very many actual battles. Having to take a life from a long distance is tough. You would think that there's a sense of safety but it's worse than being in a life or death situation. In a life or death situation you can run off adrenaline.. When you are calmly looking at your target from a scope from safety the experience surely would play your conscience like a harp. The fact that he was able to compose himself, and the fact that my CO had the same name as him, makes Irvine one of the best male characters in this game lol.

Rinoa told Seifer? I'm going to have to replay the game I don't remember that. I do remember her doing some really stupid things though.. On the same token..she struck me as one of the really spoiled shelterred girls that you sometimes see in school. I kind of find it cute... but it was annoying at times...

If you want to know who was really stupid it was Selphie. Not because of her personality - because she had a perfectly good GF when she was a kid that she could have been training her whole life so that by the time we got her in our party she would have been a total BA. But no, she had to just throw it away. Did the game ever even say what GF it was? (I say this in jest by the way)

I don't understand Edea, I never have understood Edea. Squall survived a blast from a giant fireball from hell.. he survived being shot by misiles.. he survived an explosion.. But Edea nearly killed him with 1 icicle... Edea can stop bullets but she needed you to protect her towards the end of the game... and then she just disappeared by the end of the game, you never find out what happens to her. After you defeat Ultimicia she doesn't even show up in the final cutscene (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Nostalgia gamer
12-10-2012, 07:27 PM
Yeah, rinoa told seifer what she was doing, and because of her, she endangered seifers life.

Also:Irvine was the only person to remember Edea, and called her mama Ede.He had to jog people's memories, cause they forgot about the orphanage.
Selphie was at least less dumb than rinoa.But she was clueless.

Sang Hee
12-17-2012, 11:11 PM
If the game has something you can relate to or anything that pleases you you will play it. It's an emotional thing, this game is built that way.
I felt great while being in the Balamb garden and seeing its life and it felt awesome to be Squall on his journey from being an introvert into a leader struggling not just with the world but with himself as well.
I loved the art direction of the whole world and really wished I could be there, I enjoyed how the games touched me on emotional level in the right moments.
But if you'd wanna know what I couldn't stand about the game it would be Laguna and his story. Not that I'd have anything against him but I really wanted to focus on playing as Squall.

Kikley
02-14-2013, 10:36 AM
I will agree that the game is not as amazing as some of the other installments of the series. The storyline was great in the beginning whereas the junction system sucked, but as the game went on my opinions on them sort of reversed. I began to love the junction system and began to find it really hard to get into the story.

Still, the GF sequences are the true worst part of the game.

theonlyone
03-02-2013, 04:55 AM
Considering I knew that person since I was little and was in a relationship with her for 8 years also contributed to it. I admit, I did like FFVIII when I first got it back in September 1999, but it wasn't until she started playing it that it became that FFVIII was 'our' game... if that makes sense.

Sorry to hear that. what happened? But yeah. A game that can't captivate or convinces you into the game is boring. The game could be good and all, but if nothing interests you, then it won't last long.

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------


FF9's limit breaks were controlled.

I could choose the limit br eak that is most powerfull.

And as for legend of dragoon:I thought it was a decent game,but it also pissed me off how hard it was at times to get a full combo attack.
The game was bloody hard in some fights,and i mean:REALLY REALLY HARD!! there is a fight in the final disk where you fight a ghost like boss who is completely optional.The second boss kicked my butt so bad,that i still remember it.

the way it looks to me, you are an impatient person and likes to complain over every little things. If you hate it so much, then don't even play it, period. And there will never be a 100% perfect game because game will have flaws in one way or another, so you just have to deal with it.

For example, I find drawing magic is not annoying because I can multitask without focusing on the game. I can watch movie, read a book, or doing house chores and using drawing magic as my break time, so I won't get bore or tired of doing the house chores. So yeah, drawing magic isn't annoying to me.

If its hard for you to pull out a complete combo in lod, then I guess that game is not for you. Because I didn't have problem with any of the combo after 2 or 3 times familiarize with it. You have to put your feelings into the game to time it right. Or its probably not the game for you.

Darth Revan
03-10-2013, 03:01 AM
Sorry to hear that. what happened? But yeah. A game that can't captivate or convinces you into the game is boring. The game could be good and all, but if nothing interests you, then it won't last long.

My partner died in October 2003, so this game still has a strong sentimental value for me.

Also, you're correct... if a game can't interest you, then you're not going to play it long.

theonlyone
03-10-2013, 12:50 PM
My partner died in October 2003, so this game still has a strong sentimental value for me.

Also, you're correct... if a game can't interest you, then you're not going to play it long.

:( Sad to hear that. Its great to have a sentimental time with your partner with the same interest in game. Not so easy to have that moment. Its nice to hear that you still remember that moment. I have my happy time too. Hehe. How are you doing nowaday buddy? Everything is good in life for you?

Nostalgia gamer
04-01-2013, 11:47 AM
The game has good and bad points.

I think having to exploit rng to get rid of stupid rules is really bad, as is having to reset the game a billion times to get queen of cards to go where you want.It was bad enough in suikoden 1 with gambling, that you had to reset the game.
I think also the story had too many really dumb moments.
The card game rules were plain tedious, and ruined triple triad card game for me
The good:

I liked the cutscenes quite a bit more than in ff7 for some reason.
The attack on galbadia garden for an example had me pumped, and the music playing really felt like it was perfect for the moment
I liked squall more than cloud strife, and to me, i could relate more to him, because he realizes that you don't let your problems define you, or they will run your life.You can't make excuses for your problems and run away from the people who care about you.
I thought the triple triads was interesting with its rewards.I just wish it had stayed simple.

Sang Hee
04-01-2013, 12:12 PM
The game has good and bad points...

Fair points. I play this game every year and I never got bored of it. Maybe it has something to do with discovering how to play it properly. A lot of people complained about the endless hours of drawing spells but I found it awesome, to be honest. The key is to max out the MAG status as soon as possible to get more spells while drawing. Furthermore, the GFs give you abilities to extract spells from items which is a really genius move. I found myself drawing only a few times in the beginning of the game. After that I utilized many ways of getting items in the game and just refine the spells from them. In case I came across something I needed then and there I could just draw maybe 10x at most which isn't that bad time-wise.

Regarding Triple Triad, card modding made the game really worth playing. Sure, the rules were annoying but the rewards were awesome. To be honest I never bothered with the whole card queen thing. Mugging monsters for items provided enough spells and components for me.

As for the long GF summoning times, I used GFs probably twice in the whole game. It rather pays off to utilize the junction system and beef the characters up. To me GFs were better for the abilities they provided. Later on when you could have them learn and unlearn abilities they became even better.

All in all, this game isn't so bad once you learn how to play it. You could argue it's broken the way you can max your characters out to ridiculous proportions but it takes some time to actually learn it.

Of course the story is an entirely different thing :)

IDX
05-07-2013, 10:00 AM
the way it looks to me, you are an impatient person and likes to complain over every little things.

This post had me dying

Nostalgia gamer
05-09-2013, 02:07 AM
Seems to me theon you are making up an excuse by throwing hateful comments at me.What you say doesn't prove anything but that you are unable to make good arguments without attacking people.
Next time,Try to come up with an argument.

By your standards, no game deserves to be criticized, because someone's toes can be stepped on accidentally.To me, it is really bad game design to have to exploit the rng exploit to get rid of a card game rule.You shouldn't need to cheat to get rid of a card game rule because it is nearly impossible.

Second:The card queen forces you to reset so many times.I would have liked something different in challenge, like using any number of special set rules the way she does or more combined.Losing cards because unlucky? fine.Having to reset to get her to go to the right place? Thats just plain annoying.

The rules thing really ticks me off

Olde
05-10-2013, 05:54 AM
Seems to me theon you are making up an excuse by throwing hateful comments at me.What you say doesn't prove anything but that you are unable to make good arguments without attacking people.
Next time,Try to come up with an argument.

By your standards, no game deserves to be criticized, because someone's toes can be stepped on accidentally.To me, it is really bad game design to have to exploit the rng exploit to get rid of a card game rule.You shouldn't need to cheat to get rid of a card game rule because it is nearly impossible.

Second:The card queen forces you to reset so many times.I would have liked something different in challenge, like using any number of special set rules the way she does or more combined.Losing cards because unlucky? fine.Having to reset to get her to go to the right place? Thats just plain annoying.

The rules thing really ticks me off

1. I don't think the rules were meant to be manipulated. I think they were meant as a kind of challenge to be overcame. As far as I'm aware, you weren't supposed to find an exploit to change the rules to your preference. It wasn't supposed to be easy.

2. The Card Queen only requires you to restart if you can't win back your cards from her. Yes, you'll be dealt unlucky hands, but that goes for any card game. She's the frickin' Queen of Cards, she's supposed to be hard. She's not supposed to be a pushover, and besides, where would the fun be in that?

3. Keep in mind that the game was released fifteen years ago, in 1998. The standards have changed. That was before most of the tech that we take for granted nowadays. Time didn't move as quickly as it does now; people weren't constantly checking their facebook, twitter, or email like they do now, and video games were much different than they are now (just compare FFXIII and XIII-2 with VIII). What this boils down to is, as I see it, a tacit acceptance--or at least tolerance--for resetting video games, because for many it didn't feel like it was a waste of time. The manual even gives a code for soft resetting in the manual, something nigh-inexcusable in recent games. Yes, there are problems with the game that are sometimes resolved by resetting the game, but I get the sense that that was somewhat accepted as a necessary evil in video games--you certainly see it in the Gold Saucer in FFVII. So if you're getting ticked off, you might conclude that the game might not have aged well at all. But is that a legitimate complaint about a game conceived in 1998 when, fifteen years later, our minds would be constantly barraged by distractions and we would be expected to respond to electronic media on an unexpected level, and thus we would feel that it wastes precious down-time when its necessary evils were seen as acceptable?

Darth Revan
05-10-2013, 07:10 AM
Actually Olde, FFVIII was officially released on the 11th of February 1999 in Japan, 9th of September for North America and October 27th for EU territories...

Apart from that, I agree with you.

Nostalgia gamer
05-11-2013, 10:23 AM
1. I don't think the rules were meant to be manipulated. I think they were meant as a kind of challenge to be overcame. As far as I'm aware, you weren't supposed to find an exploit to change the rules to your preference. It wasn't supposed to be easy.

2. The Card Queen only requires you to restart if you can't win back your cards from her. Yes, you'll be dealt unlucky hands, but that goes for any card game. She's the frickin' Queen of Cards, she's supposed to be hard. She's not supposed to be a pushover, and besides, where would the fun be in that?

3. Keep in mind that the game was released fifteen years ago, in 1998. The standards have changed. That was before most of the tech that we take for granted nowadays. Time didn't move as quickly as it does now; people weren't constantly checking their facebook, twitter, or email like they do now, and video games were much different than they are now (just compare FFXIII and XIII-2 with VIII). What this boils down to is, as I see it, a tacit acceptance--or at least tolerance--for resetting video games, because for many it didn't feel like it was a waste of time. The manual even gives a code for soft resetting in the manual, something nigh-inexcusable in recent games. Yes, there are problems with the game that are sometimes resolved by resetting the game, but I get the sense that that was somewhat accepted as a necessary evil in video games--you certainly see it in the Gold Saucer in FFVII. So if you're getting ticked off, you might conclude that the game might not have aged well at all. But is that a legitimate complaint about a game conceived in 1998 when, fifteen years later, our minds would be constantly barraged by distractions and we would be expected to respond to electronic media on an unexpected level, and thus we would feel that it wastes precious down-time when its necessary evils were seen as acceptable?

The problem is olde:Why include the ability to change rules then?

My problem is:Not all ideas are good ones for games.Some ideas are great, like the card game, but the rules thing i think over complicates it, and makes it go from a fun mini game, to a tedious one.Also:The golden saucer isn't that bad.I didn't have to reset that often in order to win in arena.Heck, even in FFX on the chocobo race, i didn't have to reset that much.I don't like having to do it.I feel that it makes it very annoying.

moo92
05-19-2013, 05:00 PM
Everyone OP said I agree with, the Card Queen is the most tedious piece of rubbish that ever existed creating numbers and numbers of force resets. I never once found the story boring, to me it was a journey. I hate when people compare different final fantasies, each has a separate tale with different characters thus you can never say one was better than the other, more like good or bad based on your own personal preference.


My problem is:Not all ideas are good ones for games.Some ideas are great, like the card game, but the rules thing i think over complicates it, and makes it go from a fun mini game, to a tedious one.Also:The golden saucer isn't that bad.I didn't have to reset that often in order to win in arena.Heck, even in FFX on the chocobo race, i didn't have to reset that much.I don't like having to do it.I feel that it makes it very annoying. Well to be fair I have to agree with you on some rules, not all however. I honestly dislike the rules random and elemental. I really feel like those work against you especially when most CC card players never pick a hand less than level 10s. I really enjoyed the same and plus rule though, it brought a challenge to the game. Honestly if you played without same and plus, there's no possible way to lose. Just saiyannnn..............

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